JetLag UK and Ireland - b4b-challengesdev

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JetLag UK and Ireland

London 7th June / b4b-challengesdev

By my count the following boroughs are still without locking challenges or suggestions to that effect Barking & Dagenham Southwark Hackney Harrow Bromley Wandsworth

17:34

As well as some others that are not finalised. Would be good to get the list sorted by the end of this weekend

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zlrO3ysf3iiAQkGhkF5r9lf8e3lTVJlNPtvbZmdP6so/edit?usp=sharing

Boroughs, Wheel and Challenge Details

13:24

current list of challenges

For Lewisham i'm thinking it needs to be a little more specific than just visiting one or several locations that were bombed. That's too easy for a locking challenge i think

10:31

Since there are so many locations

10:32

How about "visit a location that was bombed during WW2. However, it can't be just any location. You must be able to identify this location either because there is a gap in a continuous row of old buildings, or because there is a gap and it was clearly then filled by a more modern building"

10:33

"You must cross-reference this against the map" [link to map]

For Hackney: a suggestion "Visit the Hackney Museum, and identify a reference, in an exhibition or in the permanent collection, to a real thing or set of things that is distinctive about Hackney. The reference must be at least 10 words long and it must not be self-referential (i.e. regarding the museum itself). Then, after leaving the museum, locate that thing or set of things."

10:49

@FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb for the Barnet challenge, you had two suggestions. One about aircraft identification, and one about paper aeroplanes. I know you were concerned about free tickets to the museum running out. Due to this concern, how about we allow teams to do either challenge? So that they can do the paper aeroplane challenge if they don't want to pay for the museum entry

Realigning

@FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb for the Barnet challenge, you had two suggestions. One about aircraft identification, and one about paper aeroplanes. I know you were concerned about free tickets to the museum running out. Due to this concern, how about we allow teams to do either challenge? So that they can do the paper aeroplane challenge if they don't want to pay for the museum entry

Probably use the paper aeroplane challenge as backup

1

What does wheel bonus start/end times mean?

sevenseas

What does wheel bonus start/end times mean?

So, ratt came up with this idea of dividing London into segments (like segments of an orange) and having those segments each be activated in turn like numbers on a ticking clock

11:45

The reason this is beneficial is, especially with only two teams, it helps incentivise the teams to remain roughly near each other and interact with each other, since both teams will want to maximise their wheel bonuses

1

11:47

Then i modified that idea a bit to make sure that the central boroughs are all activated at the start (to avoid the start of the game being a literal sprint race in one direction)

Southwark Challenge Suggestion: -Southwark is home to the Shard, the tallest building and public viewpoint in London. Take a picture in London from an elevation of at least 10 (?) metres from ground level. There are a few different buildings this can be accomplished in, some paid, some free (edited)

sevenseas

Southwark Challenge Suggestion: -Southwark is home to the Shard, the tallest building and public viewpoint in London. Take a picture in London from an elevation of at least 10 (?) metres from ground level. There are a few different buildings this can be accomplished in, some paid, some free (edited)

Sounds good to me. last time we had a challenge like this we had to carefully define ground level if i remember correctly

Bromley possibilities:

One of Bromley's most notable attractions are the Chislehurst Caves, which are all man-made. Get below ground somewhere within Bromley. Being under things which are above ground level does not count. (Bromley has no Tube stations, and the intention is a public building with a basement, an underpass etc. but I think this may actually be quite challenging? I haven't yet found anywhere where I can easily verify this is possible.)
Charles Darwin lived in Down House, in Bromley. Follow in the the famous naturalist's footsteps by photographing 5 different species of animals.
Biggin Hill in Bromley was a former RAF base during the Battle of Britain. <Maybe something like the 'beaches'/'fields'/'streets'/'hills' challenge from before? Or other aeroplane-related challenges etc.>

I think challenge variety is a good thing so I would opt for #2 for something slightly different

Down House and Biggin Hill are cool but they are both a real pain to get to. I kind of think people would just choose not to lock if the challenge was there

23:29

I mean they are essentially in full countryside. No other borough has that much countryside

Well, presumably you just have to be in Bromley, right? You don't need to physically go to that house in order to start the challenge

23:30

Oh wow, that is in the middle of nowhere, especially by London standards. I just checked on the map (edited)

sevenseas

Well, presumably you just have to be in Bromley, right? You don't need to physically go to that house in order to start the challenge

That's true. I just thought you might have to because most of our locking challenges are tied to one or two specific locations

23:33

But we could take an alternative approach here

If you want to restrict it a little bit you could do something like

23:34

"Charles Darwin lives in Down House in the Bromley borough. Go to any recognised public park(s) in the Bromley Borough and photograph 5 species of animals" (edited)

23:34

Actually now that I think about it, 5 might be tough, depending on what counts or not

Oh yeah, I didn't mean you actually needed to go to Down House, it would take too long

23:44

Same with the caves

23:50

Bromley is the largest borough by area but doesn't have a ton of attractions etc. There's a Roman villa site you could get to, but only open to schools currently, and a shopping centre... but there are a number of parks, yeah

sevenseas

"Charles Darwin lives in Down House in the Bromley borough. Go to any recognised public park(s) in the Bromley Borough and photograph 5 species of animals" (edited)

I think this works

I feel like nobody's gonna have time to go to Richmond Park to test the Richmond challenge. I was going to do it this weekend, but now i'm helpdesking for the H&S event on Saturday so i can't. I think that's ok, though.

I have a couple days from tomorrow off so might think about it.

Hopefully the weather stays nice

Wandsworth: Wandsworth has the UK's lowest council tax. Buy an item for 50p or less and then "deliver" it to any building owned by Wandsworth council, whilst appearing happy. You must reach a door of the building.

20:04

Only two boroughs completely without challenge suggestions now! Barking & Dagenham and Harrow - suggestions welcome from anyone of course

Barking and Dagenham: Take a photo of any fictitious dog. This can be a soft toy, a poster, or some other form.

I was also looking into Curfew Tower, which is the only surviving part of Barking Abbey, not too far from Barking station... it's on the coat of arms of Barking & Dagenham and was first established around the year 666

Harrow: Harrow is home to one of the oldest medieval churches in London. Go to, and take a photo of, 3 different places of worship within the borough.

Realigning

Wandsworth: Wandsworth has the UK's lowest council tax. Buy an item for 50p or less and then "deliver" it to any building owned by Wandsworth council, whilst appearing happy. You must reach a door of the building.

I think it's more interesting if it's a pricing challenge of some kind to get to a specific total. As it is currently, you can just buy a bag for 30p and deliver it to a town hall. E.g. buy, (or take photos of) items summing to a total of £3.14 or something. (edited)

sevenseas

Harrow: Harrow is home to one of the oldest medieval churches in London. Go to, and take a photo of, 3 different places of worship within the borough.

I worry this is too similar to the Brent challenge, which is the borough next door

sevenseas

I think it's more interesting if it's a pricing challenge of some kind to get to a specific total. As it is currently, you can just buy a bag for 30p and deliver it to a town hall. E.g. buy, (or take photos of) items summing to a total of £3.14 or something. (edited)

I agree conceptually but i also don't want to make the challenge too hard

Realigning

I worry this is too similar to the Brent challenge, which is the borough next door

Ah, what's the brent challenge?

Realigning

I agree conceptually but i also don't want to make the challenge too hard

I think that's pretty doable in any medium-large supermarket

21:52

I'll have a look tomorrow and test it out

1

Realigning pinned a message to this channel. 28/05/2025 21:53

sevenseas

Ah, what's the brent challenge?

Pinned doc with all current challenges

Mithent

I was also looking into Curfew Tower, which is the only surviving part of Barking Abbey, not too far from Barking station... it's on the coat of arms of Barking & Dagenham and was first established around the year 666

I like this if you can build a challenge around it

If in doubt, a good challenge would be beating another team at the Wikipedia challenge to get to the Harrow borough page

22:22

Or any borough tbh

Fahmi Sack

If in doubt, a good challenge would be beating another team at the Wikipedia challenge to get to the Harrow borough page

For this format now we don't have a specific set of challenges that are dependent on other teams - we just have locking and claiming challenges

Curfew Tower, which appears on the coat of arms for Barking & Dagenham, is the last surviving part of Barking Abbey, founded in 666 (the tower dates from around 1460)...
- In the Middle Ages, it was notable for its female scholars and writers. Visit Curfew Tower and recite a paragraph (at least 100 words) by a female author to your teammates.
- The curfew bell would be rung from the tower before the gates were locked. Visit Curfew Tower and ring a bell (virtual bells are permissable)
- <Also, William the Conquerer apparently stayed there after being crowned king - maybe potential for something about that>

Mithent

Curfew Tower, which appears on the coat of arms for Barking & Dagenham, is the last surviving part of Barking Abbey, founded in 666 (the tower dates from around 1460)...
- In the Middle Ages, it was notable for its female scholars and writers. Visit Curfew Tower and recite a paragraph (at least 100 words) by a female author to your teammates.
- The curfew bell would be rung from the tower before the gates were locked. Visit Curfew Tower and ring a bell (virtual bells are permissable)
- <Also, William the Conquerer apparently stayed there after being crowned king - maybe potential for something about that>

Not totally convinced by any of those as is, I would say they arw both slightly too easy for locking challenges, but i do like the bell idea. The sound challenge in the latest JLTG season was pretty fun. Maybe it would work to ask people to make a real sound imitating a bell, but using anything?

Yeah, I was wondering if that was too hard but that could work

I guess you might run into definition problems though

23:03

Perhaps the sound has to last for more than x seconds with no input

23:08

Actually i feel better to leave it up to Helpdesk discretion whether it sounds like a bell in this instance rather than trying to define what a bell sounds like. Happy to use that challenge

I'm a bit stuck creating the map for the Golden Mile challenge for Hounslow. @FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb the problem i found is that there's very few major companies remaining on the Golden Mile. It's actually struggling commercially today, with lots of vacant buildings and ongoing redevelopments. I propose instead to use buildings that remain from the Golden Mile era, rather than companies.

10:51

as far as I can tell there are only 5 of them in total, so I guess teams would have to visit all of them

Realigning

I'm a bit stuck creating the map for the Golden Mile challenge for Hounslow. @FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb the problem i found is that there's very few major companies remaining on the Golden Mile. It's actually struggling commercially today, with lots of vacant buildings and ongoing redevelopments. I propose instead to use buildings that remain from the Golden Mile era, rather than companies.

Do you have a list of companies still working? I thought there where quite a good handful still running. I believe Sega is one of them?

10:54

Or if there's a way to map the buildings out.

i have sega, sky (which you mentioned, but are not quite directly on the golden mile, which makes them a little harder to get to), Worley and JCDecaux (don't know if you would count the last two as iconic companies, but they are at least somewhat known). there's another building marked as Sodexo, but it's actually vacant.

10:57

and then, can't find any others

10:58

i'm happy to map the buildings out, which is my general idea, but again slightly concerned about there still being only 5. either way, it doesn't give you much choice.

10:58

i'm perhaps looking for your advice in terms of making the challenge a bit broader.

also @FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb how many metres should the paper aeroplane flight in the Barnet challenge last?

11:06

(the backup Barnet challenge)

Realigning

i'm happy to map the buildings out, which is my general idea, but again slightly concerned about there still being only 5. either way, it doesn't give you much choice.

Sure, then we can figure out the potential size of the map.

1

Realigning

also @FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb how many metres should the paper aeroplane flight in the Barnet challenge last?

I'm not too sure lemme check

FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb

I'm not too sure lemme check

you didn't say in the original message, so just whatever you think is most reasonable

I know something was said in at least one of the early versions of this challenge.

1

11:14

I'll just need to dig in and find out.

1

sure, thanks

I think it was stated 10 metres in BFZ1 Lite

12:29

Fahmi, i can remember him doing this challenge then.

12:30

Would 5 metres be ok?

12:30

I remember doing this back in Manchester last year

12:30

Or 10?

5 shouldn't be difficult. I never tried 10, so I'm not sure if it's feasible or not

12:32

I also forgot to read the channel when I saw that

12:33

One thing I've noticed with the claiming challenges is that the difficulty seems to be quite varied right now. I think there's a chance that a bit of them would take longer than locking challenges

Hmm For locking challenges, difficulty variation doesn't matter too much because teams can just go for boroughs they prefer But since claiming challenges are randomised, I agree with you

FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb

Would 5 metres be ok?

Too short. That's almost guaranteed to fly 5 metres.

1

14:22

5m is roughly the length of a car

Harrow: Harrow was home to W. Heath Robinson, an illustrator, who gave rise to the phrase - "a Heath Robinson contraption", meaning something that is an unnecessarily complex way of achieving a simple result. Go to somewhere associated with Heath Robinson in the borough (the Heath Robinson Museum, Woodridings Avenue or Moss Lane) and film your team achieving something very simple (such as peeling an orange, or putting on a shoe) in an unnecessarily complex and unusual way that involves the entire team

10 metres then

16:16

I think I'll need to use the Google street view to double check

16:16

Which won't happen till i get back today

16:17

As in I need to check the Golden Mile

FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb

As in I need to check the Golden Mile

Image attachment

Image attachment

16:21

These are the 5 original 1920s/30s buildings i could find on it

If I could find which companies were originally based I might figure out something creative.

FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb

If I could find which companies were originally based I might figure out something creative.

I'm open to ideas you may have

I was thinking instead of "obtaining" gold, maybe instead obtain something more relevant

We having a spectator role this game?

Could do

23:45

With separate sign up?

I think spectator roles require signup for security reasons

Definitely. Just reuse the form I made for London

I guess verifications can be done in the same chat channels?

Fahmi Sack

I guess verifications can be done in the same chat channels?

I was thinking about that. I think verification often turns into discussion and I prefer having the ongoing discussion in the same channel

1

I feel like I shouldn't be able to see this channel as a player

16:28

Or alternatively that the borough locking challenge list should be published in advance (edited)

16:29

I don't have any mental list of anything in here, because I specifically have not been paying attention to this channel because it's mostly been over my uni exam period

Should we remove your permission for this channel? (edited)

MediocreLogarithm257

Should we remove your permission for this channel? (edited)

I think we can now. I just wanted to keep ratt in due to having been involved in the dev process. Same situation applies for weeb who is also playing.

16:33

But now the challenges list is final, i think we can remove @ratt

ratt

I feel like I shouldn't be able to see this channel as a player

Why not mute it?

16:34

I mean I did some of the challenges

(maybe the challenge list should be released if a team knows them but others don't)

16:36

I feel like that would lead to people (me) optimising stuff (edited)

16:36

but

‍♂️

ratt

(maybe the challenge list should be released if a team knows them but others don't)

I think that can be released but not now; closer to the date once everything is 100%

ratt

I feel like that would lead to people (me) optimising stuff (edited)

Yeah lol this is kind of why i don't want to release it far in advance. I believe the current plan is to release the locking challenges list at 9am on the day. Though open to changing that. Claiming challenges list matters less since they are drawn randomly. I trust weeb not to optimise.

okay, that's fine

16:40

If you send it to a player with instructions not to look at it it'd be nice to have printouts on the day

Realigning

Yeah lol this is kind of why i don't want to release it far in advance. I believe the current plan is to release the locking challenges list at 9am on the day. Though open to changing that. Claiming challenges list matters less since they are drawn randomly. I trust weeb not to optimise.

My preference is to release it the night / day before as some information is known by certain teams

ratt

If you send it to a player with instructions not to look at it it'd be nice to have printouts on the day

I can arrange this, it's a good idea. I can print them tomorrow, and i think we have the helpdesk spare capacity for me to physically be there at the start

For the first B4Z1 we had envelopes that were not to be opened until the moment the game started

Going through the claiming challenges since I didn't have time before the briefing:

Flip a coin – specify you can only flip a single coin at a time
Do 75 squats – having more players can give an advantage. We may need to change the wording a bit in case teams are unbalanced (it is balanced right now, but just in case)
Identify best meal deal – Probably good to specify best value for money a bit more. E.g. Actual money saved compared to no meal deal or money saved as a % of original cost?

I've also added comments for ones we should specify in further details. Also regarding claiming challenges that are long:

run a mile – probably quarter or half mile
walk half a mile – on the longer end, but you can also do a useful walk with it, so not too important to change the distance

Every other challenge should take at most 5 minutes, excluding travel. Run a mile and walk half a mile aren't particularly interesting for me. Maybe we change those? (edited)

and the wheel bonus is based on challenge completion time, right? Let's say someone gets to harringay by 0950 and then start the challenge then but finish at 1005 (edited)

Image attachment

18:50

That counts for double points, right?

Yep

How long do we think the Tower Hamlets locking challenge discord poll should be open for (as a minimum)?

also i very marginally changed the wording on the Havering challenge

Realigning

How long do we think the Tower Hamlets locking challenge discord poll should be open for (as a minimum)?

going to go with 15 minutes here unless anyone has any other ideas

22:08

just trying to finalise the list of locking challenges now so that I can have them printed out tomorrow

MediocreLogarithm257

Going through the claiming challenges since I didn't have time before the briefing:

Flip a coin – specify you can only flip a single coin at a time
Do 75 squats – having more players can give an advantage. We may need to change the wording a bit in case teams are unbalanced (it is balanced right now, but just in case)
Identify best meal deal – Probably good to specify best value for money a bit more. E.g. Actual money saved compared to no meal deal or money saved as a % of original cost?

I've also added comments for ones we should specify in further details. Also regarding claiming challenges that are long:

run a mile – probably quarter or half mile
walk half a mile – on the longer end, but you can also do a useful walk with it, so not too important to change the distance

Every other challenge should take at most 5 minutes, excluding travel. Run a mile and walk half a mile aren't particularly interesting for me. Maybe we change those? (edited)

Yep i agree with all of these

12:56

Still room to replace claiming challenges if we don't like them

Realigning

going to go with 15 minutes here unless anyone has any other ideas

Minimum duration of polls is 1 hour. The poll will need to be ended manually, after 15 minutes have passed

One thing I noticed is that the O2 was written as 02

MediocreLogarithm257

One thing I noticed is that the O2 was written as 02

That's how it's written now after the soft outer shell was damaged during that windstorm

2

My knee is still hurting after doing ~30 squats yesterday (to test out how long it would take) (edited)

MediocreLogarithm257

Going through the claiming challenges since I didn't have time before the briefing:

Flip a coin – specify you can only flip a single coin at a time
Do 75 squats – having more players can give an advantage. We may need to change the wording a bit in case teams are unbalanced (it is balanced right now, but just in case)
Identify best meal deal – Probably good to specify best value for money a bit more. E.g. Actual money saved compared to no meal deal or money saved as a % of original cost?

I've also added comments for ones we should specify in further details. Also regarding claiming challenges that are long:

run a mile – probably quarter or half mile
walk half a mile – on the longer end, but you can also do a useful walk with it, so not too important to change the distance

Every other challenge should take at most 5 minutes, excluding travel. Run a mile and walk half a mile aren't particularly interesting for me. Maybe we change those? (edited)

What about replacing the run and walk challenges with: Use an unusual gait - one team member must move the complete length of any street using an unusual gait that is not either walking or running. Examples include single-sided skipping, double-sided skipping, jumping, racewalking or walking backwards

12:56

Not sure whether to include racewalking in that. It does look distinctly different to walking, but the difference might be hard to define

Realigning

What about replacing the run and walk challenges with: Use an unusual gait - one team member must move the complete length of any street using an unusual gait that is not either walking or running. Examples include single-sided skipping, double-sided skipping, jumping, racewalking or walking backwards

Ministry of silly walks?

1

Realigning

What about replacing the run and walk challenges with: Use an unusual gait - one team member must move the complete length of any street using an unusual gait that is not either walking or running. Examples include single-sided skipping, double-sided skipping, jumping, racewalking or walking backwards

Sounds pretty good as a challenge. Probably not include racewalking considering there are many other ways to move

MediocreLogarithm257

Sounds pretty good as a challenge. Probably not include racewalking considering there are many other ways to move

Do you think it's ok replacing 2 challenges with 1 challenge, or you want to keep the overall number the same? I seem to remember we have slightly more challenges than boroughs

I think it's fine as long as there are more than 32

You gotta need to have a few spare challenges in place

15:14

Around 10 maybe

FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb

You gotta need to have a few spare challenges in place

Like if one has to be removed-?

Realigning

Like if one has to be removed-?

As in teams could compete for the same borough at the same time (edited)

15:47

I guess

They would have the same challenge though

1

As in the claiming challenges.

FormulaOtaku/RacingWeeb

As in the claiming challenges.

They would still have the same challenge under current plans

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